Masson & retrieverman

Have you had time to think about the colors over in the post on retrieverman about early German Shepherd Dogs?

Black, Grizzle, and reddish brown (solid colored or “with tan”) and
WHITE, white with patches of color, brindle (with or without “tan markings”).

NOT LISTED: sable, saddleback, mantle coated.

What is listed, can you see them one by one in your mind’s eye?

Can you write out the alleles?

Today, German Shepherd Dogs can be black, but I am told that it usually a recessive black.

So we have:
1. solid black
2. solid white
3. solid reddish brown
4. ‘solid’ grizzle

5. black with tan markings
6. grizzle with tan markings
7. reddish brown with tan markings

8. white with large patches of color
9. white with large patches of color, and tan markings
10. “white” with tan markings,

11. brindle
12. brindle with tan (just writing what it says – he might mean brindle long mantle and tan markings? a black and tan with brindle? – but I have seen dogs with both black & tan and tan markings, and the only brindle was in the tan markings. Merle will just work on the black mantle. Does Masson include Merle with brindle? Maybe this is something unique to breeds that I don’t know well?)

I don’t claim to be into color – it seems to be the craze – but not my thing. I have a simple answer: so long as the color doesn’t hurt or disadvantage the dog, whatever the color is, is okay with me.

But this is a bit of a different case. This is really about: What happened to the German Shepherd Dog?

I do NOT know about the inheritance of grizzle – so I am going to leave that out, there is plenty to chew on without it.

We have tan markings on: black, reddish brown, (grizzle), “white”, white piebald, and brindle. Masson mentions it twice, once as “with tan” and once as “tan markings”.

So what colors and patterns do we have?

Read Full Post »

German Shepherd Dogs

Over on retrieverman today, he did a very good post on the early German Shepherd dogs. According to the text he quotes, the early German Shepherd Dogs could be:

Black, reddish brown, grizzle, or brindle (solid colored or with tan),
White, or white with patches of color.

What have we got here in genes?

Today’s German Shepherds come in tan with black saddle or black mantle (and other colors), so the “with tan” must mean the the author is not being very specific and is clumping both of those patterns into “with tan” along with the usual “with tan”,

which make me guess that some of the other color descriptions might be parent categories, not specifics –

unless German Shepherd Dogs back then did not come in both saddle/mantle AND tan points –

and since “with tan” would more imply tan points, that would be saying that the most common color in German Shepherd Dogs today (the tan with black saddle/mantle) was NOT an original breed color – it was not even listed!

That would be like IF today’s German Shepherd Dogs were usually all white, but white was NOT an original color –

but wait, white IS listed as an original color – but saddle/mantle is NOT!

Could it be that breeders have been breeding what was the rejected color?

Not only that, but that they have rejected most of the original colors, in favor of a rare breed color?

Thanks for reading:
http://thepdkc.blogspot.com/

and if you want to read the post that I am commenting on, it is:
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/

more on “Masson and retrieverman” post, here.

permission to cross post.

Read Full Post »